Curse

akyros · Aug 24, 2009, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Firstly, I know these 2 Mesmer spells were intended as duplicate skills between Factions & Proph.

However, unlike most of the other duplicate skills (which are mainly offensive) hardly anyone would use 2 of them (eg. reveal hex + inspired hex) in the same skill bar.

Chose the 'Revealed' pair to be suggested for change as the 'Inspired' set has better use as they are in Proph (eg. Inspired Hex vs Glint's monster hex).

Presently:

Revealed Hex (present): Spell. Removes a hex from target ally. Removal effects: you gain 4...9...10 Energy; this spell is replaced with that hex (20 seconds). [cost 5 energy, 1 sec cast, 0*sec recharge]
Revealed Enchantment (present): Spell. Removes an enchantment from target foe. Removal effects: you gain 3...13...15 Energy; this spell is replaced with that enchantment (20 seconds). [cost 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 0*sec recharge]

Suggested Changes:

Revealed Hex: Spell. Removes a hex from target ally. You gain 40...104...120 Health. [cost 5 energy, 1 sec cast, 20 sec recharge]
Revealed Enchantment: Spell. Removes an enchantment from target foe. You gain 40...104...120 Health. [cost 5 energy, 1 sec cast, 20 sec recharge]

The time of activation are the same as before.
You gain Health unconditionally (whether a hex/enchant is removed).
The Health is always gained by the caster not the target (unlike Cure Hex)
Unlike Drain Enchantment, no energy is gained (hence a similar cost but faster cast time).
The Health gained range is as per Drain Enchantment (40...104...120).
A recharge time of 20 is added while the copying/replacement of hex/enchant skill is removed (effect lasted for 20 sec too).

With these changes, mesmers get a pair of self heals with supportive/offensive effects.

It also helps mesmers to take a little load off the healers in a party during fights.

With their long recharge time, they will not be able to replace Ether Feast or be spammable.

Does not provide energy gain so will not replace the roles of Drain Enchantment or Inspired Hex.

Comes in handy versus skills like Backfire and Visions of Regret allowing the caster to remove enchantment or hex, while mitigating or lessening the punishment effects.

Reveal Hex can even provide the much needed targetless self-heal when the player's team support is down and foes are dead/gone, while the player has degenerative effects still on him/her.

Thank you for reading!

Gift3d · Aug 24, 2009, 12:22 PM // 12:22

might want to have a look here derp

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Drain_Enchantment

aga · Aug 24, 2009, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Interesting ideas, I don't see why you would gain health when removing a hex from someone else. Also even with the 1 second cast, compared to Drain Enchantment's 2 sec, Drain would still be better, imo, maybe the recharge should be 15seconds or something.

Xsiriss · Aug 24, 2009, 12:50 PM // 12:50

So basically worse version of drain enchantment.The only times reveal hex was used,was for energy management...All they should do is make it not be replaced by the hex and reduce the recharge to like 12secs.

Chocobo1 · Aug 24, 2009, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

might want to have a look here derp

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Drain_Enchantment

Afraid this guy is right :/. Also:

Quote:

Originally Posted by akyros

Firstly, I know these 2 Mesmer spells were intended as duplicate skills between Factions & Proph.

However, unlike most of the other duplicate skills (which are mainly offensive) hardly anyone would use 2 of them (eg. reveal hex + inspired hex) in the same skill bar.

And there are very few cases where people use duplicate skills on the same bar. All I can think of is a Touch Ranger.

Swahnee · Aug 24, 2009, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Well, the concept that stands behind those two skills is mesmer's ability to steal the power of the enemy and use it against him. So you steal a hex and use it against those who put it, or you steal an enchantment and use it on your teammates (which is against those who put that enchantment).

Honestly, i prefer this mechanism, also because mesmers already have some little self heal which is enough IMHO.

The problem with those two skills, in my view, is the fact that the hex or the enchantment that you steal isn't useful because most of the time you haven't any point invested on their attributes.

So i would buff those skills in this way instead:

Revealed Enchantment: Spell. Remove an enchantment from target foe and gain 3...13 energy. For 20 seconds, Revealed Enchantment is replaced with that enchantment (20 seconds). This enchantment now uses your Inspiration Magic attribute instead of its normal attribute." Inspiration Magic. 10e, 1c, 0r.

Revealed Hex: Spell. Remove a hex from target ally and gain 4...9 Energy. For 20 seconds, Revealed Hex is replaced with that hex (20 seconds). This hex now uses your Inspiration Magic attribute instead of its normal attribute." Inspiration Magic. 5e, 1c, 0r.

draxynnic · Aug 24, 2009, 01:02 PM // 13:02

To be honest... make those changes, and I STILL won't use them. The situations in which either would be better than another skills are still far too situational.

What I'd really like to see is either a Drain Hex, or a hex removal that is spammable without burning a huge chunk of your energy.

leetLoLa · Aug 24, 2009, 01:12 PM // 13:12

with those skills ppl run ruins of morah

Bellus · Aug 24, 2009, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Revealed Enchantment: Spell. Remove an enchantment from target foe and gain 3...13 energy. For 20 seconds, Revealed Enchantment is replaced with that enchantment (20 seconds). This enchantment now uses your Inspiration Magic attribute instead of its normal attribute." Inspiration Magic. 10e, 1c, 0r.

That's modding both versions of the skill, but it would make more sense. -Or just copy the entire thing directly[software as well as hardware]. That way, instead of clogging your skill bar when you actually snatch something, you could have some fun with it.

MagmaRed · Aug 24, 2009, 01:37 PM // 13:37

It isn't used often, but they are used together for some pretty fun builds. Toss on Signet of Illusions and all the Inspired/Revealed skills and you have a nice way to run team support and use the skill you are stealing. Also works with Arcane Mimicry and Arcane Thievery/Larceny.

And I may be wrong, but it sounds like you want the changes for use by another class (Monk). Mesmer has some pretty good uses of these skills. I toss them on myself or heroes for various things, and although rarely, I will use both at the same time. I just don't see a need for any change.

akyros · Aug 24, 2009, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Afraid this guy is right :/. Also:

And there are very few cases where people use duplicate skills on the same bar. All I can think of is a Touch Ranger.

I know what Drain Enchanment does already, I know it has similarities. However, at 1 sec cast time it is less vunerable vs interrupts and health gain even if it fails to remove an enchanment (so the energy spent isn't wasted when that happens)

There definitely are cases where duplicate skills are used together, like touchers & blood vamp spikes etc.
However I am referring only to these 2 skills, a skill bar with these 2 sets in particular has been only for fun builds and hardly viable for PvP or more challenging PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

It isn't used often, but they are used together for some pretty fun builds. Toss on Signet of Illusions and all the Inspired/Revealed skills and you have a nice way to run team support and use the skill you are stealing. Also works with Arcane Mimicry and Arcane Thievery/Larceny.

And I may be wrong, but it sounds like you want the changes for use by another class (Monk). Mesmer has some pretty good uses of these skills. I toss them on myself or heroes for various things, and although rarely, I will use both at the same time. I just don't see a need for any change.

The changes suggested are intended for Mesmer actually.

Monks have Cure Hex and investing in Inspiration for heals (for monks) instead of using their own isn't that efficient.

With more option/variety of self heals, mesmers don't have to always rely on others to heal them pre/post battle (eg. Reveal Hex can have good synergy Illusion of Weakness) and help mitigate damage done to you while casting/removing in battle (while being attacked or hexed).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

might want to have a look here derp

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Drain_Enchantment

My suggestion works to the advantage that even if you happen to 'miss' removing an enchantment (enchantment expired earlier than expected or got removed by someone else - Drain Enchanment is quite slow even with fast casting), you do not waste the energy as you still get healed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

Well, the concept that stands behind those two skills is mesmer's ability to steal the power of the enemy and use it against him. So you steal a hex and use it against those who put it, or you steal an enchantment and use it on your teammates (which is against those who put that enchantment).

Honestly, i prefer this mechanism, also because mesmers already have some little self heal which is enough IMHO.

The problem with those two skills, in my view, is the fact that the hex or the enchantment that you steal isn't useful because most of the time you haven't any point invested on their attributes.

So i would buff those skills in this way instead:

Revealed Enchantment: Spell. Remove an enchantment from target foe and gain 3...13 energy. For 20 seconds, Revealed Enchantment is replaced with that enchantment (20 seconds). This enchantment now uses your Inspiration Magic attribute instead of its normal attribute." Inspiration Magic. 10e, 1c, 0r.

Revealed Hex: Spell. Remove a hex from target ally and gain 4...9 Energy. For 20 seconds, Revealed Hex is replaced with that hex (20 seconds). This hex now uses your Inspiration Magic attribute instead of its normal attribute." Inspiration Magic. 5e, 1c, 0r.

Signet of Illusions would be useless then.

Seriously, don't double post. Or in this case, quadruple post. Thanks. - Katsumi

Swahnee · Aug 24, 2009, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Well, Signet of Illusions isn't there only for that kind of skills, you can use SoI in a lot of different ways..

On the other hand, now that kind of skills can be used only with SoI, so if you want to use them you have to bring also SoI. It's not so good to me.

Xsiriss · Aug 24, 2009, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Your suggestions suck face it.And as has been mentioned,these skills are just not worth the slot especially if the only difference between reveal hex and drain enchantment is 1sec of casting time because there's this thing called fast casting which mesmers use.

Reverend Dr · Aug 24, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by akyros

However, unlike most of the other duplicate skills (which are mainly offensive) hardly anyone would use 2 of them (eg. reveal hex + inspired hex) in the same skill bar.

I sure know that I bring both tiger's fury and bestial fury because they are both offensive.

Regulus X · Aug 26, 2009, 03:04 AM // 03:04

I have a Rt build that employs both Inspired and Revealed in the same bar, and it wtfpwns!